If you want to read the interview here it is below. You can listen to the audio on the right.
Clifton
Hello and welcome to the Legacy Replay podcast and I’m your host Clif and today we have a special guest, Andy.
Andy
Hello.
Clifton
Yeah hello there, Andy.
Andy
Thanks.
Clifton
Alright so just get some insight here Andy. If you follow our website, he has top 8’d the two of the recent events here in the Arizona Magic Series and I just tell you he’s, uh, he’s not bad, not about magic player. So, Andy, why don’t you give us a little bit of information about yourself? You know where you from? Like when you got started playing magic.
Andy
Yeah, originally from Seattle area and moved to Arizona about a year and a 1/2 ago or so. I’ve been really enjoying the seasons out here its been really nice. I got introduced to magic with a 7th Edition starter set in like 2000 or so. So it’s been a little bit, uhm. Play just like Super Super casually for a long time just like kitchen table cards that I’ve had with my brother some friends.
Clifton
Yeah, like everybody right?
Andy
Yeah, I mean like. I say. you get a started deck when you’re a kid. Now this is great these. Things look really cool. You have no idea what you’re doing and then at some point down there someone teaches the actual rules. It’s like, oh wait, this seems actually really good.
Clifton
Oh, you mean you got to tap lands, yeah?
Andy
You mean Llanowar Elves doesn’t put a forest into play I don’t understand. Yeah, I mean really only started in uh, Scars of Mirriodin , New Phyrexia. That’s when I started actually. I would say actively play first standard was with like Innistrad. Like around M12 first released I attended played standard for a while, picked up modern around RTR, picked up Legacy around Khans, jamming like it’s the other ton of fun.
Clifton
Yeah, and what do you like about legacy?
Andy
Uh, I mean legacy is magic at 100%. I feel like the interactions you have, the enablers you have that dash out are all. Really powerful, but nothing is really just like, absurdly broken. Like you’ll get some like vintage, where I mean everything is just like crazy and wild and that’s. The knobs turn 11. It’s too high.
Clifton
Ah vintage. Vintage is pretty much photoshop these couple cards and add x.
Andy
Yeah, that thing is. It’s like. Vintage vintage is too much. Like no, no shades of standard or modern like. I think that those formats, but you obviously you’re playing at the lower power or weaker your your options are more limited to just like maybe the couple decks that are good now seeing modern a little bit more wide open. But I also like the fact that legacy, pretty much any style of deck we want to play, there’s going to be something that’s least something competitive for it, be it you know. Hard Drago control to combo to aggro. The just the raw power level of the cards you play with. Just kind of, maybe you. Just do anything and I think that’s really sweet.
Clifton
You think Legacy is hard to get into.
Andy
I mean, yeah, I mean obviously there’s a price point, which is unfortunate. There’s fortunately Legacy scene in this area is fairly proxy friendly, and I think that’s really good thing. Just to get more people to play it. I I think it can definitely be a little intimidating because the card pool is so high, so why and I think you have a lot of, uh, playerbase, that’s been so deeply entrenched that they don’t necessarily. I think it’s some people. That lose sight of new players not immediately knowing what everything does. And I think that could definitely be a little intimidating, and there’s just so much to learn, but I definitely think it’s worth it. I, I think that will.
Clifton
Isn’t that where people started coining the phrase, we got a reader?
Andy
You gotta read your cards . I like making my opponents read.
Clifton
Alright, and what’s? Your favorite deck player legacy.
Andy
I mean it varies, right now, in general Reanimator. And it’s kind of got me in the format. I think that deck is sweet. Obviously talking about hivemind I love. I love that. I love ninjas. I love playing anything. It’s just kind of a little bit off the wall.
Clifton
Yeah, now I can. Last time you were playing a pretty off the wall cascade deck too, so.
Andy
Shout out to the guy on reddit that posted that list. it’s definitely a lot of readers in that one.
Clifton
We’ll check that one out later, so today we are going to talk Hivemind. So how about you give us a general description of the deck here and we will go from there.
HIVEMIND
LANDS (20) 4 Ancient Tomb 1 City of Traitors 5 Island 3 Misty Rainforest 2 Polluted Delta 3 Scalding Tarn 2 Volcanic Island Spells (36) 4 Brainstorm 4 Force of Will 4 Pact of Negation 4 Pact of the Titan 4 Ponder 4 Preordain 4 Show and Tell 1 Slaughter Pact 3 Stifle 4 Sudden Substitution Enchantments (4) 4 Hive Mind SIDEBOARD (15) 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All 4 Dress Down 2 Echoing Truth 3 Leyline of the Void 1 Slaughter Pact 2 Sorcerous Spyglass 2 Surgical Extraction |
Andy
Yeah, for sure hivemind at its core is a show and tell deck. Most people are probably more familiar with sneak and show or omni tell or something of that variant. It’s similar were using just bunch of cantrips, so you played the full set of brainstorms, ponders and preordains just to churn through your deck to get all your combo pieces. You’re using ancient tombs using city traders to accelerate and cheat on mana, and then you’re either using a show and tell to put a hivemind into play. Which you then use any of the pacts from the original future sight, one of each color that all costs zero mana, and then you have to pay mana on your next upkeep or else you lose. It’s that idea of like it’s a free spelling out that pay for it later. But the idea that I’m giving my opponent the pact. So they get the free spell now and then hopefully they can’t pay on their next turn and then my pact never come to because my opponents loses first. So you either use it show and tell you turbo out a show and tell to put a hivemind into play, cast a pact hivemind triggers, my opponent gets pact as well, or you play the Commander 2018 All Star. Sudden substitution, which is 2 generic and double blue for an instant with split second that exchanges control of a creature and a non-creature spell. Uhm, so the idea with that one. Is I get to 4 mana on turn. Three with like a ancient tomb Two islands, my opponent plays there. Whatever creature Delver, murktide, whether it is I cast the pact of some sort I hold priority I cast a sudden substitution target my pact and their creature. Substitution has split Second, it resolves. My opponent now controls packed I control creature. They can try and fight over the pact they want at that point. But now they’re the one that’s resolving the pact. Their next upkeep they have to pay or they lose. Just kind of different variant on the on the show and tell shell.
Clifton
OK, and the two important spells here, primarily are hive mind and sudden substitution, which are the enablers for the deck. Uh, just to explain, I guess how the hivemind Actually works so.
Andy
Hive Mind is a 6-mana enchantment. It is 5 and a blue and it says whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery. Each other player copies that spell. So once I get my hive mind in play I cast, let’s say Pact of the Titan. Which is the red one that makes a 4/4 and then your next upkeep you have to pay four and a red. So it’s turn three I cast show and tell and put hive mind into play. I cast pact of the titan when the hivemind triggers resolves it is going to put a copy of Pact of the Titan on the stack under my opponent’s control, so there’s will resolve then my copy resolves. I pass the turn now in my opponents upkeep their pact triggers. Hopefully, they cannot pay for it. They lose the game . Some of the other neat stuff with hivemind is once the hivemind in play, single target counterspells become pretty bad. I cast a spell after hivemind is in play.You cast a force of will yourself. Your spells trigger the hivemind too so now I get a copy here. Works well and I’m just going to point it right back. Here’s his mind goes on 2nd. Things like flusterstorm and pyro blasts can be ways to get around that, but yeah, generally hivemind makes counter magic not not impossible.
Clifton
Yeah, don’t get me started. On that double hivemind
Andy
Oh yeah, single HiveMind makes Counters Bad two hivemind make counterspells good again.
Clifton
They get it get following. Yeah alright, and similar thing with substitution. Basically, you’re just. switching out your. Packs whichever one you want with a creature.
Andy
Yeah, so substitution definitely has the upside. Of I get. A creature. So in some instances where my opponent can. Interact with pacts. Uh, like if I’m playing it’s delver and they. Make a murktide they’ve got, like with. BIG66 and they can counter the packet. Though I don’t care if they counter the pact because now I get their murktide and my sudden substitution has split second. So with few exceptions, pretty hard to interact. With anything, it’s a man ability. So like skirk prospector food chain chain all can remove the target under. Split second at. Which point then said substitution fizzles But outside that it basically is guaranteed, resolved, and even if my pact gets. Countered or Their pact gets countered. I still get. The creature, so I definitely won a bunch of games. That way I just take my opponents creature and they can’t do anything about it. The downside that sudden substitution? Is that I only give them one. Pact so if we traded resources and the. Game has gone to the point where my opponent. Can now pay for a pact. I can’t just force. A win with sudden Substitution, ’cause even if I give them the pact That they can pay for it then. They they don’t lose and I. I haven’t achieved my goal.
Clifton
That’s going to be a good lew way. Here to the next. Topic that I have for you on this one here, the shell is pretty much mono blue and you’re just adding whatever color pacts you want now. Now I’ve noticed on your list you’re running the Red Pack pack of the Titan the the blue one is obviously pact of negation , and then you’re running one slaughter pact, the black one.
Andy
yes.
Now I’ve noticed that. The other colors I think, in my opinion, probably a little less common and green and white. Is there a reason why you don’t run those.
Andy
I I know thew hite one is pact of l intervention, but I cannot really remember what it does and I think the fact that it’s such a non-memorable effect should probably tell you like. It’s I guess it’s a little bit harder to. Pay for for. Some decks, but it doesn’t do anything. Uhm, the green one. There are some builds of this deck that have gone more all in on certain substitutions and gone away from. The hivemind like that over master make sure stuff resolves. Those ones can use the green pack because you can pack for a Elvish spirit guide to help with turboing out the spell. In that regard with the green. Packs for a little harder to pay. For it for some decks, but I just don’t. Think the white and the green pack really have. Any impact on the game whatsoever outside of being more difficult to cast?
Clifton
OK.
Andy
The blue one. Obviously, is the best of them, even though there’s a lot decks out there that play blue, generally you’re in the game for these five mana, and the blue One protects your combo. It’s pretty easy if you have, like you know. a hive mind or show and tell Blue packed all of. A sudden now instead of a combo. Piece your blue pact is now protecting the combos. Like the blue. One is excellent. The red one. Can win you games? I have won more games than you would probably anticipate by just casting an instant 4/4 and then paying for it. That really comes to light in matches against like doomsday. Where you kind of just trade resources back and forth, you’re preventing them from doing their thing. They’re they don’t have anything for you to sudden substitution. They’re either forced of willing or like they’re dealing with your show, and also you’re not really doing your thing, use makeup work or even a little bit aggressive with their . There’s all doomsday and go down to like 4 or something like you can just beat them to death with giants. It’s not like obviously plan A in most matchups, but like beating some of the death with a 4/4 is definitely a valid game plan.
Clifton
Uhm I guess dooms day would be. Fun just to watch Somebody try to go off. We’re still having like a card or two in their library and just substitution. The the Creature.
Andy
Yeah.
Clifton
No devotion to blue so.
Andy
Usually, the doomsday people are pretty good at making Sure they have their cards in hand. Yeah, but I do play 3 main deck stifle. stifle is really good against doomsday, like they’ll, dull, you actually have their pilot the caverns so they resolve their thing and I dont even care that they resolve it. I’ll just counter the the trigger with stifle. and you can start with your upkeep trigger. Four years yes, and that’s that is part of the reason why. I’m playing. stifles I definitely had to go with games where you make. Like in in that game where you want this to 4/4 beat down really turn one. I make the four four untapped. stifle my pact trigger like you’re kind of all in on it you have like depending on the match up you know to be able to risk if you opponent has a counter for the stifle. You can also in like desperation modes. Uh, just like cast an early pact negation to stop your opponent from ending the game. And then, if you have the stifle , you can’t not even like upkeep, brainstorm like dig for stifles. I’ve definitely gone through those lines as well. Uhm, stifle also plays a fairly important role in keeping your opponent off mana kind of talked about that. A little earlier with. Opponents gets to the fifth lant it makes a lot more difficult because now they can. Pay for. That pact up, but just going like island go like on the play. You know, calling with land, ponder and they go untapped. Let’s brainstorm, play fetch land, crack no. Absolutely not.
Clifton
Uh, pseudo wasteland?
Andy
Yeah, the one man. Sinkhole wait, like no one. No wonder people don’t respect stifle f it just you brainstorm lock on you. Take him off mana. Makes it harder for me to pick the packs like their drawers aren’t lining up as well now ’cause they don’t get a late. You know, shuffle away their garbage and brainstorm. Tackle those work. Well, those are kind of like slots. Uhm, but I, I think the stifle are actually pretty important to the game plan over there.
Clifton
Well, there’s another. Thing there too that you don’t really need your opponents to play creatures, it’s just useful because you. Are running forbidden orchard in your list.
Andy
Yeah, so I have two forbidden art periods because sometimes your opponents are very inconsiderate and don’t play creatures for you To take so you have to give them features to. Forbidden Orchard also lets you pay the colored man for your pacts if you need to. It’s the currently the only black source in the deck is forbidden Orchard, so if you have to, slaughter pact something for value you’re not paying that slaughter pact with forbidden orchard You can stifle it in previous versions. Of the deck. I’ve run underground seas but I just don’t think it’s that relevant . Currently I’m on 2 volcanic islands. To pay for red pacts if I need to and. Obviously the forbidden orchards. The volcanics are most . Important ’cause there’s some red cards in the sideboard?
Clifton
Yeah, little pyroblast And red elemental blast.
Andy
Yeah, so right. Right now I’m on 2/2 pyroblast because you know Countering Blue spells is good and I’m on to fry. Uh, my deck is very cold to teferi so so you gotta, you gotta kill teferi. Real bad so the fry is s the best way to do that in my opinion. Yeah, forbidden orchard gives your opponent creatures to take. Uhm, it can sometimes be interesting. Specifically in the goblins match up, because you can give your opponent a creature that they can’t. Sack to skirt prospector, which obviously with different. Interaction will come over time, but it’s happened. So that’s fun. Uhm, tax for any color really good. Yeah, no parts tech pretty good.
Clifton
Well, locally, here we do. Have at least. 3 dedicated goblins questions, though like should come up.
Andy
I have my. Games by giving my opponent creature they could sac to prospector so it it’s a small percentage but it’s it’s an interaction with the deck to. Be aware of. Yeah, no, it’s mainly. There just to give your opponent an early part creature tp substitution against something like doomsday or control or something that doesn’t generally play early creatures for you. Or sometimes people just play super passively ’cause they don’t want to play feature out into your combo. So you just give them creatures to combo it.
Clifton
And on on that one there. Since it is a combo deck. Is there a reason we’re not trying to race out tunr 1 wins/ up like? Lotus petals for example.
Andy
I, I think consistency is probably your best reason, and there’s there’s really just not. Room in the deck. For lotus petals ? You could technically put some in and bought out the stifles, but I think the stifles . More important and and you know you look at i need four hive mind and four sudden substitute. I’m currently playing. 9 packs 4 Red 4 blue one black so you want like that. High def high density of packs to make sure that you have them. I’m playing twelve cantrips. You could technically shave on the cantrips a little bit if you want it. I don’t think it’s great. Because really I want to spend the first two to three turns of the game casting 5 cantrips.
Clifton
One building and.
Andy
I want turn on longer term 2 brains. Perfect clearly turn 3 ponder brainstorm like. I want to sit there. I want to see. 20 parts of the first two that. We turned the game. I also like the perfect seven . And then I want. To go off with multiple force of wills and pact of negations . Back up, so I’m turning off that velocity. Of not having the Lotus petals, which I think your consistency to have it on. Turn one would. Be low anyway, like ’cause.
Clifton
Like a lot of turn 2. Though yeah,
Andy
You you start with Ancient tomb to show and tell that happens. Even if you play, if you played those petals, your hand that you would have to sculpt have a turn on kill. Would need to be like sol land Lotus petal show and tell hivemind pact. It’s now your five parts of your seven part open Hand to sculpt your turn 1.
Clifton
I guess it would be harder to find. Yeah, you can do it.
Andy
Like more so in something like. You know Reanimator where you’re just digging for, like a + B, and you really don’t need a. Whole lot to go off turn one . But it you know it’s it’s. A pretty hard combo, either one like. Yeah, I guess technically substitutions 2 card combo show and tell hivemind is a three card combo. Uhm, and because you’ve got mono blue shell, I just don’t think it’s worth it to try and turbo it out. I think you really just want that consistency to. Dig further protection. So you can just sit there ’cause I realistically, especially if your opponent’s not presenting clock to you, you have the first four turns of the game to do whatever you want. Because you just have to make sure. That your opponent doesn’t get to that fifth Mana, which I you can also take lines where you intentionally play out non basics. They’re going to take play lines in here till it keeps falling down. It’s like I don’t really. Care they sure wasted my volcanic. I didn’t, I literally didn’t need. It, but now here that you don’t. Have that extra. mana to pay for the pact act or stifle someone. Like you spend. Your first couple turns doing that and then after you can’t do it. Four Times Now you have the. Perfect hand and now. You can go off.
Clifton
With the extra protection, yeah.
Andy
With the protection with two pact of negation and force of will.
Clifton
And for this deck here, what do you think are your worst matchups?
Andy
Teferi, im not even going to give you a deck its just teferi.
Clifton
But the only real decks that run teferi is jesaki control.
Andy
Yeah, so jeskai control are very difficult. Uhm comes back that they don’t play creatures, so it kind of cuts off half my combo. Yeah, Teferi is neigh impossible to beat because your show and tells are not resolving. You literally can’t cast anything in response with sudden substitution. that that part of the combo is that strictly not functioning. The one creature that they tend to run that’s not based off of Planeswalker is an eternalized timeless dragon, which is black.
Clifton
Which you cant kill
Andy
Really awkward about it. Jeskai is a rough matchup. Delver is not too bad. The hardest part about Delver is. Sudden Substitution lines are a little tricky because they generally have a lot of. Counter magic to then counter. Their own packed, but like I said, like. If you take like the important creature I. I killed my opponent with their delver before ’cause they kept in one threat hand and like we just traded resources back and forth. Uhm, teferi is the hardest part. Painter is an oddly hard matchup because they churn out a lot of mana and between their mox opals and their petals they can pay for what they want. And that thing is like they have a welder they have mox opal and petal . It’s very easy for them to pay for the colored mana. Uhm, so painter, it’s weird painters are really weird match up. Uhm, outside of that it’s not too bad you. You struggle a little bit. From the like mox diamond decks like you’re in island and whatnot are a little rough against the sudden substitution matchups again, just because it’s not that difficult for them to pay for one pact.
Clifton
So at that point you’re trying to go off with two. Pact.
Andy
yeah,
Speaker 3
you want. 10 mana instead of five.
Andy
You want to go with that hivemind put two pacts on the stack They don’t really care. Like colors and at that point. Yeah, paying for 10. Mana is. Did not many decks get to do that for the time that’s happening? So those matches a little rough, but yeah, definitely the worst, not just. The deck that I experienced as Jeskai control .
Clifton
So we know what decks. Can pay that mana.
Andy
Jeskai also quite simply just blocked. Out from the game. Have been paid. Every year and that’s Exactly so you have show and tell hive mind. We just counter that that’s rough.
Andy
You get a little bit of ame for it in games two and three out of the sideboard. Uhm,pyro blast. I cry. I have a boseiju who shelters all not that new-fangled green saves you my my OG, but they do that protects myself. Playing that on turns two and casting show and tell on turn 3. That end games. Uhm, didn’t fluster storms . Can you know like I’m not much but fun. But it’s an option.
Clifton
Yeah, sometimes better than other things like that.
Andy
Yeah, you also at that point don’t delete. Come on the combo, but usually I. Think substitutions outmatched because there. They’re very, very. Hard to put us. In those ones, but yeah.
Clifton
No, that makes total. Sense and then having a find . Going from all we need two cards or combo to only to find Forbidden Orchard. So we have got a three-part combo.
Andy
Because by this time they had a. Creature, by the time jeskai control has a creature the game is over over yet they have stayed one. So substitutions not great. But yeah,
Clifton
makes total sense. And how do you feel? About the meta game here.
Andy
I think it’s pretty good the local. I mean we don’t we kind of inflows depending on how many people get showing up. You can kind of start for their fight scenes, same stuff. The excellent shows only jeskai control every. Week you have. People show up that. You know, like only play goblins or someone’s always on delver. When I was on. Reanimator, but I I think the local meta. There’s enough people to play enough different things that you’re not like. Pigeonholed into sculpting your sideboard around four different people or something? I’ve I’ve played in places where you only have 10 people total, like legacy. Yeah, it’s it’s very easy to make these really weird decisions made back in five, four decisions ’cause you’re like, oh. I don’t want, yeah. Four years of chance to play in.Every week I go play.
I’m like wait a second. Wait for it. So it’s nice, like obviously we have the people to show up, but they. Have their pet decks. Going to play, but there’s enough different people to. Show up on. Other enough different things that you really can’t. Tech your sideboard too hard for the local. Meta because of it is. Fairly fairly open which is nice. .
Clifton
Yeah, we always usually have like 20 plus. People show up. So you never. Know who’s gonna show. Andy
whenever whenever we Have like the city champs or the win a dual . They have 20, 30, 40 people. Uh, and sure you might be able to pick out 10 people in the room and know what they’re on. But get enough people that just kind of swap around and play whatever. Or or you get people you’ve never seen before. So, so you always kind. Of have to. Just keep those sideboard options open for whatever.
Clifton
Which is helping.
Andy
Out the legacy it’s like like say. That it’s wide open? Yeah, you never know.
Clifton
Yeah no, I thought it makes sense like. For me, I’m not sure what your philosophy is on this, but for me. I’ve thoguht a lot about. Play what you know versus play with good.
Andy
Yeah no, I I. Definitely feel that I think you can always point to something that’s like you know that’s. The best deck in the format. But if you’re someone that’s not super comfortable with. It then you’re not gonna, probably. Obviously pick it up, learn it, play like, that’s how. You have. To learn it. But if your goal is like I. Want to perform this the. Best I can at this given tournament. I think you’re going to have better results playing a . Deck, you know? 100% versus a quote UN quote. Better deck people play it 70% like. Also, with something hive mind or if you’re on some other rogue deck, but you definitely get points of like your opponent’s not understanding what you’re doing and giving you wins like that.
Clifton
Yeah, ’cause the unexpected. Usually makes your opponent fumble and not understanding completely what’s going on, so you’re just like, whoa.
Andy
Yeah the like when I play hivemind . Hopefully you know there. There’s enough people that are putting. It’s not that they have like a general understanding of the matchup supposed to work and what I’m doing earlier this year I went up and played at Peterson, Battleground in Washington and I top’d16. That and there was a couple matches that I just got wins because my opponent thoughtseized me wrong. But my opponent looks at my hand. Seeing , sudden substitution a pact and takes a cantrip ’cause they don’t know what I’m doing and they don’t understand . What’s happening and they miss prioritizing things. And like you. You get that. Aspect, if you’re playing that road back that people. Aren’t familiar with you. You get wind up. But like obviously that only last so long here playing the local meta, but it’s definitely something to consider. in your deck selection.
Clifton
So I’ve been on that side of the table where I thoughtseize you or duress you. I’m over here just wrapping my head and feeling like. He’s got x of these left in his deck. what are the chances he draws this and like take this one isntead he only needs one heart for this to go off. Like take this and then yeah. It just always feels bad. Yeah, it just. It never feels like he made a lot of choice ’cause it’s just like it doesn’t matter ’cause there’s basically 2 combos in the deck. And you just can’t.Beat them both at the. Same time, yeah.
Andy
I thought they might be hive mind side or the sudden substitution side. And you know, if you’re taking the combo piece and leaving your two cantrips is really not every taking on the. Cantrip back into it anyway, so. That’s fairly resilient. Yes good So yeah,
Clifton
I know. Well, on that one there. The the Meta game for me as well. Does feel kind. Of open and healthy. I know there’s a lot. Of talk of a lot of hate for Delver , obviously. Always, but I’m pretty sure that’s. Gonna stay like that for. A long time. Uhm, if you could ban something, what would you ban and why,
Andy
uhm? If I had to pick a card to ban right now , probably murktide . I’m I’m not. Saying murktide is and I say it needs a ban right now . I think the. Meta has been shifting. I think Delver is still the deck to beat and it’s something I’ve been out of it. I would not be. Disappointed, I think they’ll get huge influx. With Dragon rage channel, expressive itertation and murktide all the same time. Obviously they had.
Clifton
Not a good point. It won’t be.
Andy
Yeah, I think it’s one of. Those three, and the reason I go to Murktide I over the other two. Is there are a Lot of decks are playing expressive and I think if you hit expressive you start getting more of the format than just delver i just think its murktide , but I think delver is by far the biggest playerof murtide in the format. Uhm, something I’ve always seen as kind of like a table of the Delver archetype is that you play one or two like one man, three power threats. You know, back to nimble Mongoose delver, obviously delver like. Uh, drc . They’re all these like one mana evasive 3 power threats. And then you. Have this like really tempos shelf like exchange resources protected your threat, but your counterplay inside and see if it’s only three power threat . You have four or five turns the. Opponent to draw. Out of it because they’re only being you down. With three power at a time. murktide gives you an obscene amount of closing power, where all of a sudden we’ve traded resources over this like you. Know small threat. back and forth and now instead of having four turns where you take me from 12 to 0. 3 at a time, I have one turn because now you have two mana 8 /8but also pitches to force or will . So I think murktide gets delver two fastest clock. I can see. I can definitely see arguments for Dragon rage channeler and expressive iteration, like those parts, are very strong. Dragons or channel is also very strong with murktide because it lets you like turbo out the murktide.
Clifton
Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say oh. God, I say fight me. Andy ’cause no. No offense but. I don’t know why, but I.Don’t really like. Hate Delver, yeah but I think in my opinion the cards is dragon rage channeler.
Andy
All I I think I. Think you could. Sit there and make an argument for any of those three I think having. The combination of. Those three cards together is somewhat problematic. I think you could make the argument for any one of those three to be gone and the other two without the third one. I think would be a much. More reasonable shell at that like that I. Personally would like. To see more murktide just because I don’t like Delver having that fast of a clock and having like their next primary threat also be hard pitched force of will, but if you wanted to make argument . And told me that was just going to ban, you know, DRC inside the other two I, I think that’s reasonable. I think any one of those. Three would be. A reasonable argument, but just in in my view.
Clifton
OK agree, disagree there but that. Alright, now there have been not a lot of changes to the format really, since the only things that they print out, they pretty much, uh, shove into an existing shell.
If you could unban something. But what would you unban?
Andy
I don’t think there’s anything really. You don’t know. Off it. Uhm, I think everything on there is on there for good reasons. I think there’s a couple parts that could probably come off, but the problem I see with those is they’re either not going to make an impact to. The format in which point updating them isn’t worth it. Like they didn’t do anything. Or they’re going to be degenerate and make. For unhealthy play patterns. And so, like I just don’t think it’s worth taking that risk. I don’t. I don’t think there’s anything that’s currently on the banned list that could come off and just be like. A reasonable card in the format. The closest thing is. Probably like earth craft or mind twists, but once again like. I I don’t think either of. Those are going to. Reasonable things, they’re either don’t think so. And and the other. Problem you have put some of. This stuff is like. Uh, earthcraft is it the reserve list card And so if you unbanned. That your accessibility for like legacy is already and expensive format that are already kind of expensive. And if you unban, the prices skyrocket even more.
Clifton
Right? Yeah, yeah fine.
Andy
Aircraft, because that’s the thing it’s up. You know they took. That into account when they unbanned things like Jace the mind sculptor , Stoneforge in modern. Both of those unbans were timed around. You know they weren’t mythics in like a supplemental set now that they were tying To try and like, alleviate some of those accessibility. So you have. Some cards that sit on the ban list that Are like yeah? earthcraft could probly come off but. It’s not something that you can unban and make, like the excessive part, because the numbers are close, so I just don’t think it’s worth unbanning like. And like most of on The banlist just. It is only for very good reason. So I I don’t I. I personally don’t think I would have.
Clifton
valid valid now. If you could play any legacy deck.Huh? What would you play? Doesn’t matter, the money doesn’t matter.
Andy
I don’t like it. It’s hard for me to pick up the deck stuff on player. Just the decks that I have. Like I like playing around my head. My like my ninjas. Like I I I. I don’t think there’s anything. Quite at a single deck that I get this I I would love but this is. What I really. Wanna play right now? I, I think the stompy shells are really cool like moon stompy or some of the other like.The that. Core shell of soul lands and chalice of the void trends here. Like that kind of shell, I think there’s really cool ’cause you can you. Obviously, you need something best. For his number, so you want.
Clifton
To lock up people, yeah.
Andy
Yeah sure why not? I don’t care.
Clifton
If your opponent cant play magic its ok.
Andy
yeah, I’m playing magic. Im having fun. That’s what it is.
Clifton
So we signed up for yeah. After playing magic.
Andy
I think you can take that. Those people randomly show up online. Like mono, white versions of it. There’s someone 5 – 0 playing black vice and ahnk of mishra. Yeah, like it’s such a cool shell in the fact that, like the shell of the deck, that 40 card core is so powerful that you can pretty much do whatever else you want with that. And you can place real out there stuff and still be competitive because you’re like so powerful. So I think that’s kinda neat. I I just. Don’t own up city traitors and chrome moxes for it’s. Like I I get.That would probably. Be the best answer to your question. Yeah, yeah, I don’t know.
Clifton
Yeah, yeah, well, you heard it lock people up . Don’t let them play magic, yeah?
Andy
its a zero sum game I’m going to have as much fun. As I can my. opponent can’t have. Any true true?
Clifton
Now anything you want to follow up here, any shoutouts or anything.
Andy
Uh, nobody I can think of. come. Play if you in arizona. Play city champs . Got one more event coming up or maybe just finish and then this is. Gonna air so. Maybe having more by coming up until our masters. at the end of the year and then. Uh, next year. Uhm, probably going out like monthly one case ish not guaranteed 1k. Hopefully pricing based on attendance, obviously.
Clifton
Yeah, Oh yeah, coming up. Next is actually going to be next. Sunday the 6th. We got a win a trop cronk mart.
Andy
Yeah, win a trop cronk mart , yeah?
Clifton
Cronk mart welcome back. But that is coming up on Sunday the 6 which is a little. Weird, ’cause we’re I’m used to having you know our tournaments on Saturdays. Like regular people we.
Andy
We plan that on. Sunday because there’s multiple RCQ’s on that area that’s there. There’s a standard and modern rcq . Yeah, and there’s enough of the legacy groups that play other formats. They wanted to play, which I I’m that’s valid. Like they want to go qualify that I get. So so we we put it on Sunday. Just to Trying to make good with anyone that. Wanted to play those events Also had the opportunity to play, you know.
Clifton
And remember, this is. Uh, proxy friendly.
Andy
Yup playtest friendly. Show up. Do you want to play legacy? Welcome you. Just make sure that your cards are not marked. We we fully understand that the formats too expensive, so we just want people to Play
Clifton
yeah, watch out for those pringles.
Andy
Yeah you can. You can show up and win. Yourself a trop start playing legacy with so.
Clifton
That’s a great. Starter yeah blue dual
Andy
blue duals are great if you play all you need. Stream warming, play in fact.
Clifton
Alright, then thank you Andy for coming down here and helping me out.
Andy
With this yeah, absolutely, thanks for. Having me
Clifton
and I’ll probably get you back later and maybe talk. With him Reanimator anytime. All right, and that’ll be it for this episode. Stay tuned for the next one. Thanks again.